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	<title>Comments on: Shadowline Slimline Offer Less for More</title>
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	<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/</link>
	<description>On Publishing, Poetry, Politics and Pop Culture</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Killing a Good Thing &#187; Comics Worth Reading</title>
		<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator>Killing a Good Thing &#187; Comics Worth Reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loudpoet.com/archives/1240#comment-1538</guid>
		<description>[...] Guy LeCharles Gonzalez has more information on how Image is treating its &#8220;Slimline&#8221; format (aka Fell/Casanova format, 24 pages for $1.99) &#8212; badly.  Shadowline, Image co-founder Jim Valentino&#8217;s personal imprint, has recently latched on to the format with their mini-series Sam Noir: Samurai Detective, but has taken a rather odd approach with it by&#8230;well, let Shadowline editor Kris Simon explain it: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Guy LeCharles Gonzalez has more information on how Image is treating its &#8220;Slimline&#8221; format (aka Fell/Casanova format, 24 pages for $1.99) &#8212; badly.  Shadowline, Image co-founder Jim Valentino&#8217;s personal imprint, has recently latched on to the format with their mini-series Sam Noir: Samurai Detective, but has taken a rather odd approach with it by&#8230;well, let Shadowline editor Kris Simon explain it: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Trembley</title>
		<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/#comment-1379</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Trembley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 02:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loudpoet.com/archives/1240#comment-1379</guid>
		<description>I completely understand.  :) &lt;br/&gt;It felt initially that you were using Sam Noir as an example to back up...&lt;br/&gt;"Assuming "fans" even know about any of Shadowline's upcoming titles, how many are going to be willing to pay full price for 2/3rds the content and no color," or &lt;br/&gt;"It's not like Shadowline has a track record for launching successful titles, or standing by struggling ones". &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I brought up the "sold out" status only to point out that, unlike most no-name first-timer comic creators our sales did not go down after issue 1 and because of moderate sales, we have a collected book of issues 1-3 out in Jan. and a second series starting in Feb. and 2 more slated there after.  I understand completely that all "sold out" means is that retailers had no faith in the book and pre-ordered "safely", and Image didn't over print the book high enough to meet demand.  &lt;br/&gt;But all that said, that does say something about a book. People bought the copies that were available.  And as a first time published creator, that was pretty geeky cool.  I can at least cuddle up with the fact that there aren't 100's of copies in quarter bins, aching for adoption.  :) &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do apprecaite you taking the time to explain yourself.  Not that I feel you owed me any explanation.  It's your writing and column and you have every right to say what you want.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is a shame about Emissary, as I liked that book quite a bit.  I hope our book doesn't go down hill as of the next series and if it does then that's the way of it.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for the closing kind comments.  If you ever do get around to reading Sam, I'd love to know what you think.  Good, bad, whatever?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely understand.  <img src='http://loudpoet.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> <br />It felt initially that you were using Sam Noir as an example to back up&#8230;<br />&#8220;Assuming &#8220;fans&#8221; even know about any of Shadowline&#8217;s upcoming titles, how many are going to be willing to pay full price for 2/3rds the content and no color,&#8221; or <br />&#8220;It&#8217;s not like Shadowline has a track record for launching successful titles, or standing by struggling ones&#8221;. </p>
<p>I brought up the &#8220;sold out&#8221; status only to point out that, unlike most no-name first-timer comic creators our sales did not go down after issue 1 and because of moderate sales, we have a collected book of issues 1-3 out in Jan. and a second series starting in Feb. and 2 more slated there after.  I understand completely that all &#8220;sold out&#8221; means is that retailers had no faith in the book and pre-ordered &#8220;safely&#8221;, and Image didn&#8217;t over print the book high enough to meet demand.  <br />But all that said, that does say something about a book. People bought the copies that were available.  And as a first time published creator, that was pretty geeky cool.  I can at least cuddle up with the fact that there aren&#8217;t 100&#8217;s of copies in quarter bins, aching for adoption.  <img src='http://loudpoet.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I do apprecaite you taking the time to explain yourself.  Not that I feel you owed me any explanation.  It&#8217;s your writing and column and you have every right to say what you want.  </p>
<p>It is a shame about Emissary, as I liked that book quite a bit.  I hope our book doesn&#8217;t go down hill as of the next series and if it does then that&#8217;s the way of it.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the closing kind comments.  If you ever do get around to reading Sam, I&#8217;d love to know what you think.  Good, bad, whatever?  </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy LeCharles Gonzalez</title>
		<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/#comment-1378</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy LeCharles Gonzalez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 01:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loudpoet.com/archives/1240#comment-1378</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Ultimately, I’d appreciate it if people wouldn’t make blanket statements about an entire line of books.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Just to be clear, Manny, my criticism lies not with Sam Noir, which I haven't read yet, but with Shadowline's characterizing it as a Slimline format title when, even by your own description, it's clearly not.  Any "blanket statements" I mat have made were in reference to the imprint and its business model, based on statements made by Valentino and Simon, and not a judgement of the quality of any particular title.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Simon's claiming your series is in the Slimline format does it a disservice as it focuses attention on a quantitative comparison that does you no favors. Better to have pointed out that the format and cover price were artistic and/or economic decisions and leave it at that.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for selling out, we both know (I hope) that doesn't really mean anything in the direct market where most print runs are based on their pre-orders with a modest overprint, and making a reference to it here makes you seem disingenous or naive. According to ICv2 and CBG, your second issue shipped approx. 3,100 copies in October, and I'd be surprised to hear Shadowline printed more than 5-6,000 copies in total, if that.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;By comparison, Emissary #5 was right in the same ballpark and is now cancelled (or on hiatus, if you prefer) as of its 6th issue thanks to even lower pre-orders for issues 7 and 8.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;All that said, thanks again for commenting, and I sincerely wish you the best of luck with Sam Noir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Ultimately, I’d appreciate it if people wouldn’t make blanket statements about an entire line of books.</i></p>
<p>Just to be clear, Manny, my criticism lies not with Sam Noir, which I haven&#8217;t read yet, but with Shadowline&#8217;s characterizing it as a Slimline format title when, even by your own description, it&#8217;s clearly not.  Any &#8220;blanket statements&#8221; I mat have made were in reference to the imprint and its business model, based on statements made by Valentino and Simon, and not a judgement of the quality of any particular title.</p>
<p>Simon&#8217;s claiming your series is in the Slimline format does it a disservice as it focuses attention on a quantitative comparison that does you no favors. Better to have pointed out that the format and cover price were artistic and/or economic decisions and leave it at that.</p>
<p>As for selling out, we both know (I hope) that doesn&#8217;t really mean anything in the direct market where most print runs are based on their pre-orders with a modest overprint, and making a reference to it here makes you seem disingenous or naive. According to ICv2 and CBG, your second issue shipped approx. 3,100 copies in October, and I&#8217;d be surprised to hear Shadowline printed more than 5-6,000 copies in total, if that.</p>
<p>By comparison, Emissary #5 was right in the same ballpark and is now cancelled (or on hiatus, if you prefer) as of its 6th issue thanks to even lower pre-orders for issues 7 and 8.</p>
<p>All that said, thanks again for commenting, and I sincerely wish you the best of luck with Sam Noir.</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Trembley</title>
		<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/#comment-1377</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Trembley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loudpoet.com/archives/1240#comment-1377</guid>
		<description>I saw your article through the comics worth reading site.  I will copy and paste part of my reply&lt;br/&gt;.  &lt;br/&gt;"Our book, Sam Noir sold out (from Diamond) within a week of being put on shelves. All 3 issues. The choice to go B/W was our choice, Eric and I, and had nothing to do with hiding poor sales. (Just to be clear, we did not expect to sell out!)&lt;br/&gt;I also think the $2.99 price did help the sales. On top of that we had fewer ads. I don’t in any way believe Sam will ever compete with Fell. We are definetly no Warren Ellis/Ben Templesmith. I’m a big fan of Ellis’ work. We had a much better reception to our little book than we ever imagined and we look forward to seeing where Sam Noir goes. Ultimately, I’d appreciate it if people wouldn’t make blanket statements about an entire line of books." &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Regarding the price point...&lt;br/&gt;"Fell and Casanova are 16 pages of story/art and 24 total pages. Full color. Sam Noir/After the Cape are B/W (by design) 22 pages of story/art and a total of 24 pages. So, you get 6 more pages for a buck. Fell gives you 8 pages per dollar and Sam Noir gives 7.33 pages per dollar." &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I mainly am commenting because I think it wrong to make blanket assumptions about books.  Now, the issue of whether or not you like our book is purely your opinion.  &lt;br/&gt;I enjoy Sam Noir and hope to keep making it for some time.  Fans and consumers will determine whether or not I will be allowed to.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thank you. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Manny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw your article through the comics worth reading site.  I will copy and paste part of my reply<br />.  <br />&#8220;Our book, Sam Noir sold out (from Diamond) within a week of being put on shelves. All 3 issues. The choice to go B/W was our choice, Eric and I, and had nothing to do with hiding poor sales. (Just to be clear, we did not expect to sell out!)<br />I also think the $2.99 price did help the sales. On top of that we had fewer ads. I don’t in any way believe Sam will ever compete with Fell. We are definetly no Warren Ellis/Ben Templesmith. I’m a big fan of Ellis’ work. We had a much better reception to our little book than we ever imagined and we look forward to seeing where Sam Noir goes. Ultimately, I’d appreciate it if people wouldn’t make blanket statements about an entire line of books.&#8221; </p>
<p>Regarding the price point&#8230;<br />&#8220;Fell and Casanova are 16 pages of story/art and 24 total pages. Full color. Sam Noir/After the Cape are B/W (by design) 22 pages of story/art and a total of 24 pages. So, you get 6 more pages for a buck. Fell gives you 8 pages per dollar and Sam Noir gives 7.33 pages per dollar.&#8221; </p>
<p>I mainly am commenting because I think it wrong to make blanket assumptions about books.  Now, the issue of whether or not you like our book is purely your opinion.  <br />I enjoy Sam Noir and hope to keep making it for some time.  Fans and consumers will determine whether or not I will be allowed to.  </p>
<p>Thank you. </p>
<p>Manny</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://loudpoet.com/2006/12/14/shadowline-slimline-offer-less-for-more/#comment-1375</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loudpoet.com/archives/1240#comment-1375</guid>
		<description>You know, I love a lot of Image books, but they are just not filling me with confidence about the way they do business.  Why even "create" a format that supposes a cover price of $1.99 and then not sell books at that price?  How stupid is Image?  Why is the comic book industry in general so very, very, very idiotic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I love a lot of Image books, but they are just not filling me with confidence about the way they do business.  Why even &#8220;create&#8221; a format that supposes a cover price of $1.99 and then not sell books at that price?  How stupid is Image?  Why is the comic book industry in general so very, very, very idiotic?</p>
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